TheTrinityDelusion says we’re Gnostics???

This post was apparently written back in November, 2011 and I am now responding to it. TheTrinityDelusion apparently is accusing Trinitarians of being Gnostics by using a series of false dichotomies in this post of his here. I hope to reply to these points now, 4 and a half years later.

First off, the first series splits divine Jesus from human Jesus. In Trinitarian theology, these are both one and the same Jesus though but there are two different natures. When one asserts that Jesus is speaking as a man sometimes and as God other times, this leads to two Sons in the Trinity. This is Nestorianism, not Trinitarianism. Many modalists though make these statements as they cannot argue past the fact that the scriptural revelation shows their doctrine to be a heresy and so they resort to the vain philosophies of man. The scriptural revelation of the Trinity easily solves this issue retaining monotheism and allowing there to be two natures that do not distort or diminish the other.

The first four deal with Jesus’s begottenness and parental lineage. The problem is that these are false dichotomies and a failure to understand the Trinity. Jesus was begotten in his mother’s womb and in time in the incarnation but he was also begotten before the incarnation as well. Incidentally, Jesus discusses with Nicodemus about being “born again” (John 3:3-5). It isn’t too difficult to see that a double-begottenness can in fact be possible for Jesus as well especially in both eternity and from the Ever-Virgin. We next come to that Jesus has a mother while “divine Jesus” does not. Again, a false dichotomy. Jesus of course has a mother as Mary is the Mother of God. So in actuality, Jesus would probably say something like “I have a mother and I am also her creator as well”. Interestingly enough, scripture affirms that Jesus is the “branch and root of David” as well (Rev. 22:16 where “root” is contrasted with “descendant” affirming he is both creator and offspring of David).

The next two are equally preposterous as well. One Jesus says he is 30 and the other says he is ageless and one Jesus says he is a created human and the other says he is uncreated divinity. We can dismiss this with a clear understanding that the natures of Jesus do not diminish or blend into each other. Jesus was God become man. This means he was uncreated but he assumed a created nature and his ministry on Earth lasted 30 years (that is a guesstimate by the way).

As for who did the miracles, does it actually matter? Though Jesus did say he would raise himself from the dead (John 2:19-21). Apparently, this TrinityDelusion guy thinks he has all the Hebraisms down but refers to Jesus’s “growing in wisdom” as if it refutes the Trinity. According to Fr Raymond Brown, when we encounter Luke 2:40 and Luke 2:52, we are encountering a common tradition of ancient historians to develop a “boyhood story” about a character such as that of Alexander the Great, Cyrus the Great, Osiris, the Buddha, etc. (The Birth of the Messiah, 482). Which does not necessarily mean that these are a-historical facts but that such language is common to use in stories of boyhood. It is more idiomatic for the development of maturity than anything else. Such that “one must desist from using the present scene to establish a historical development (or lack of development) in Jesus’ self-awareness” (483). As for the Father being the only one knowing the day and hour, I am not certain how exactly to take this verse but one must also keep in mind Rev. 19:12 and ponder if perhaps the Father does not know certain things. No Trinitarian would state this so perhaps an apophatic interpretation of both Matt. 24:36 and Rev. 19:12 would be better?

Next, TheTrinityDelusion focuses on how Jesus described the Father as greater than he and how the Father is his God. Both are easily answered in the context of the Trinity. In Trinitarian theology, the Father is actually seen as the cause of the Trinity (Alfeyev, Orthodox Christianity, vol. II, 176-177). The Father, as cause is indeed greater than the Son. In terms of divinity, they are co-equal. Again, another false dichotomy. Jesus of course, can have a God and still be God at the same time as Trinitarian theology acknowledges that the Father is wholly God, the Son is wholly God, the Holy Spirit is wholly God, they are not each other or parts of God. Jesus’s having a God does not contradict his divinity either due to the Father being wholly God. They are one God but Jesus can declare the Father his own God and he can also say that his Father is our God as well due to the members of the Trinity each being wholly God. If partialism is assumed, then this is impossible. But Trinitarians decry partialism as heresy.

In regards to the death of God, see my previous post. I think the last two are nonsense as they presume divine Jesus is another Jesus.


About newenglandsun

A student. Male. Passionate. Easily offended. Child-like wonderer. Growing in faith, messing up daily.
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